![\"\"](\"https:\/\/downthelinezine.com\/archives\/files\/2022\/01\/441a.jpg\")
<\/p>\n<\/p>\n
I can\u2019t claim to have been a huge 441 fans since their first album. They were pretty much gone from the whole music scene when I was first discovering \u201cChristian\u201d music.\u00a0 When I did get a chance to hear them (via a really bad mp3 bootleg rip of their second album), I was impressed by the quality of music and honesty of the lyrics under the mp3 digi-stortion. I can now say that I own all of their albums and count them as one of the better bands I own.\u00a0 As a band, 441 has been through their ups and downs the past few years \u2013 including member Glenn Holland being diagnosed with cancer right before their reunion concert (more details about that can be found in Jerry Wilson\u2019s excellent book God\u2019s Not Dead<\/em><\/strong><\/a>). They have also seen the uglier sides of the music industry up close through the years.\u00a0 Through it all, the members of 441 seemed to emerge with their faith and drive to play music both intact \u2013 a somewhat rare combination in the CCM world of old. Glenn and John Giali took some time out of busy lives to discuss a wide range of topics with me.\u00a0 I fully enjoyed the depth of what they had to say \u2013 you might have to read this interview more than a few times to take it all in.<\/p>\n The first things fans probably want to know is, how is your health now Glenn? Any updates?<\/strong><\/p>\n Glenn Holland: Thanks for asking.\u00a0 I’m healthy and have had no signs of cancer since my original diagnosis in 2005.\u00a0 I go in periodically for tests and the ‘magical’ 5 year mark is August.\u00a0 I feel very lucky and blessed.\u00a0 There are so many people who get a raw deal in life and life has been good for me.<\/p>\n The CD transfers of the 441<\/em> album and\u00a0Mourning Into Dancing<\/em>\u00a0are really clean. What was the process to get those on CD?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: That is thanks to our guitarist and audio expert John Giali.\u00a0 When Blue Collar folded, Harry Barnes was gracious enough to give us the masters to MID.<\/p>\n John Giali: We were fortunate to have possession of the original 2 track mix masters, but \u00bd\u201d 30 ips tape isn\u2019t a format I could accommodate in my project studio.\u00a0 I had a connection at the famed Village Recorders in Los Angeles where I was able to make a direct transfer to DAT about 15 years ago, a format that enabled me to get it into my computer to re-master for CD.<\/p>\n For people (like me) who are newer fans, where does the song “Ronnie” on the S\/T re-issue come from?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: That is a song written by John Giali back when 441 was new but it didn’t make it onto our debut album.<\/p>\n JG: Yeah, the song was recorded during the sessions for the first album, but was actually written just prior to the formation of 441.\u00a0 John Mac and I had kind of a short- lived friendly songwriting rivalry going on around that time and \u201cRonnie\u201d was my response to a new song of his, \u201cMom And Dad.\u201d\u00a0 It was often part of our live set in the early days, and occasionally still gets asked about, so we decided to include it as a bonus track when the album was re-mastered for CD.<\/p>\n We have already discussed this, but for those out there that might be wondering – will there also be a CD re-issue of\u00a0Sacrifice<\/em>?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: I doubt it, but it can be had in digital form through iTunes, Rhapsody, etc.\u00a0 You can find more info on our website,\u00a0441online.com<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n Did 441 ever face any controversies in the Christian music scene?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: Controversies? \u00a0One time Steve got caught drinking a margarita at a restaurant by some friends of the band who happened to be\u00a0fervent Christians. \u00a0They were really offended. \u00a0What I was offended about is that it was a strawberry <\/em>margarita. \u00a0In the end everyone survived with their salvation intact. \u00a0I think.<\/p>\n I remember we played “I Feel Fine” by the Beatles at a gig once and a guy (yes, fervent Christian) got really upset. \u00a0I hope he’s gotten over that by now.<\/p>\n Jimmy Swaggert railed on us in one of his books (along with a bunch of other bands). \u00a0I think we were playing the devil’s music or something – much worse than visiting prostitutes, I’m sure.<\/p>\n That’s about as close to controversy as we got.<\/p>\n If I can be serious for a moment, it’s incidents like these that can give people the perception that some Christians are closer to the Taliban than is comfortable for them. \u00a0We don’t need no Christian Taliban. \u00a0The way to avoid that is to focus on love, forgiveness, art, music and the many things that God have given us to be joyful about. \u00a0You don’t hear about the hot new Taliban Heavy Metal band, the Taliban Symphony Orchestra or the great painting one of the Taliban leaders produced. \u00a0No, they’re in a cave somewhere figuring out how to oppress women and program young boys to blow themselves up. \u00a0They’re so obsessed with their narrow view of how everyone should live that the richness of life has been squeezed out. \u00a0All because they think that’s what God wants them to do. \u00a0In these crazy times, maybe the world needs to see Christians embrace that richness, the love, the grace.<\/p>\n This became very real for me when my first marriage was ending. \u00a0I had more than one close friend – all “serious” Christians (ultimately, much too serious for me) – cut off all communication with me because of my situation. \u00a0What was next, public stoning? \u00a0I needed my friends more than at any time in my life and basically if I didn’t do exactly what they said, that was it. \u00a0One friend I never talked to again. \u00a0That was 17 years ago. \u00a0The “secular” world doesn’t do that, do they? \u00a0So was I to conclude that Christians are less loving and less forgiving than non-Christians? \u00a0That was certainly the reality for me.<\/p>\n I’d like to think 441 has been able to convey that life has those rich things to offer, that there’s grace and it comes from something way bigger than us.<\/p>\n Tell us a bit about the set list for the Broken Reunion. Why were those songs chosen? Did the whole set make it on to the CD?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: The band had a 30 minute set, so we needed to play a selection that best represented what 441 was about.\u00a0 We’ve started concerts off with \u201cLooking at You\u201d and \u201cJordan\u201d for years, and that combination really starts the show off with energy.\u00a0 Since we were the opening act, it was important to do just that.\u00a0 Beyond that, it’s a process of crafting the set for the right intensity, emotion and song recognition.\u00a0 \u201cIn The Night,\u201d although intense, is a fine rocker.\u00a0 So it went third.<\/p>\n \u201cBreak Out\u201d was our most popular song by virtue of it being number one on the radio in L.A. back in the 80s.\u00a0 Usually, that means a song is going to go near the end but I think we started feeling as a band that we had more to convey later in the show than the relative bouncy-lightness of \u201cBreak Out.\u201d\u00a0 But to do that, we had to have confidence in our material that it could sustain the rest of the set.\u00a0 I mean, what if you went to a Modern English show and they played \u201cMelt with You\u201d fourth in their set?\u00a0 You’d probably go get a beer after that, right?<\/p>\n Now, I’m not saying we have stronger material than Modern English, just that 441 had stronger material than \u201cBreak Out.\u201d\u00a0 So, following \u201cBreak Out\u201d with \u201cFish on the Car\u201d kept that momentum going because it’s a very recognizable tune right from the beginning.\u00a0 In fact, you can hear people just after the end of \u201cBreak Out\u201d yell for \u201cFish on the Car.\u201d\u00a0 So once Ronnie (Martin, of Joy Electric) hits those first notes of Fish the crowd really reacted.\u00a0 That’s why you play music in the first place.\u00a0 It\u2019s a great feeling.<\/p>\n From there, it was about taking the crowd through some different emotions: joy through trial (\u201cMourning Into Dancing\u201d), anguish and doubt (\u201cIs It Enough\u201d) and then full out love and praise (\u201cIn His Presence\u201d).<\/p>\n The band did a great job.\u00a0 Steve Giali was flawless on drums.\u00a0 That was crucial for the CD.\u00a0 Typically a band uses several nights to compile a live recording.\u00a0 We had one shot.\u00a0 Some things can be fixed after the fact but drums aren\u2019t one of them.<\/p>\n Having some high caliber musicians come through for us with Joe Medrano on bass in my absence and Ronnie on keys along with John and John\u2019s experience surely made it a great show.<\/p>\n The entire set is on the CD and in the order I just described.\u00a0 Obviously, we edited out some of the breaks and talking in between songs – it’s nice for those in the audience but especially now with mp3s lots of talking just doesn’t work very well in a recorded product.\u00a0 We kept one snippet where John McNamara introduces \u201cIs It Enough\u201d and explains that I’m not there.<\/p>\n JG: Given the short allotment of time for our portion of the show, we were fairly unanimous with what songs we wanted to play.\u00a0 I\u2019m reminded though that initially \u201cFish on the Car\u201d wasn\u2019t in the set.\u00a0 But Ronnie and Joe insisted during a rehearsal that it wouldn\u2019t be a real 441 concert if we didn\u2019t play it.\u00a0 So far, no one has seemed to notice though that we cut the third verse to make room for it.<\/p>\n What is the history of the two new songs? Were they older songs just now recorded, or written recently? What was it like recording songs at a distance?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: 441 had discussed doing an entire new album in recent years.\u00a0 I had started writing songs again and quickly compiled enough for a record.\u00a0 As well, John McNamara had several he had written over the years.<\/p>\n Ultimately, the fact that I now live in Texas combined with the daily rigors of our current lives made that a difficult proposition.\u00a0 When Beth graciously gave us access to the recordings of the Broken concert it allowed us the opportunity to do something.\u00a0 Adding a few new songs onto the project was something that was good for everyone.\u00a0 People who dug what 441 was 25 years ago could hear something new.\u00a0 The band could participate in a creative session with one another again.\u00a0 For me, it was therapeutic to contribute material to the project since I didn\u2019t perform at the concert.<\/p>\n \u201cInside Me\u201d is a song I wrote around 2006 when I had started writing for a possible new 441 record.\u00a0 This song came out easy.\u00a0 When I write, I usually just start playing my acoustic and humming and mumbling.\u00a0 It’s songwriting via speaking in tongues.<\/p>\n The topic of \u201cInside Me\u201d is fairly simple, yet a very personal one for me.\u00a0 I’m probably not the only person on the planet who has trouble in relationships and who has a darker side that’s not too far from the surface.\u00a0 Letting someone \u201cin\u201d is scary.\u00a0 You worry that they will take one look and walk back out or, worse, make themselves at home and trash the place.<\/p>\n Whether you’re relating to God or a human, once that person starts to see things you didn’t intend to reveal it can be distressing or liberating.\u00a0 Or both.<\/p>\n I tried to capture those different reactions with the three major parts of the song.\u00a0 A little anger or fear, some tenderness and humility.\u00a0 I had the song pretty well arranged out but bringing it to the band always adds more flavor.<\/p>\n \u201cRain Fall Down\u201d is a song John McNamara wrote in the early 90s.\u00a0 441 had re-formed and were playing assorted shows around \u201991-\u201893.\u00a0 We played that song in a show we played in 1993, the last show before we played in 2005.\u00a0 I had a recording of the performance.\u00a0 We took that arrangement and made some tweaks – like the guitar intro and a new bridge.<\/p>\n What was really fun was working with John Giali and a close friend of mine, Tony DeNeri, on guitar.\u00a0 Tony and I played in a cover band in L.A. before I moved and he’s a great guy and an excellent player.\u00a0 Seeing John and Tony working together was really nice and they collectively came up with some tasteful parts for the songs.<\/p>\n It also allowed us to work with Ronnie and Jason Martin.\u00a0 Jason engineered most of the tracks for the new tunes and Ronnie has been helping us for a few years now.\u00a0 They’re great people and it was fun to be around them.\u00a0 Jason reminds me a bit of Gene Eugene, but don’t tell him that.<\/p>\n As for logistics, I had done demos of both songs and solicited feedback from the guys.\u00a0 I then flew out for a weekend and we tracked drums, guitar, lead vocal and bass at Jason’s studio.\u00a0 I took the tracks back to Texas and added some stuff.\u00a0 We ended up going through quite a few revisions on \u201cRain Fall Down,\u201d especially for the guitar intro.\u00a0 John and Tony finally nailed that one evening at John’s house and sent me the tracks.<\/p>\n Working remotely is certainly possible, but it wasn’t easy.\u00a0 Once I had all the tracks, I mixed it in my home studio.\u00a0 John G. did a lot of post-production work and the two of us collaborated via email, phone and file transfers.<\/p>\n It was a fun process, but it took time.\u00a0 I love creating and it was nice to have such oversight and latitude on a project.<\/p>\n JG: Glenn really did have a slew<\/em> of great new songs and easily enough for a full length studio release.\u00a0 All of them could have and should have<\/em> been recorded but we picked a couple songs, \u201cInside Me\u201d and \u201cRain Fall Down,\u201d to experiment with the feasibility of us using a remote approach.\u00a0 We\u2019re all pretty pleased with the result, but in the end just finding the time to devote to it proved the most difficult part about it.<\/p>\n Above:<\/strong> 441 in an irreverent pose. Credit: Kim Loy.<\/p>\n What are all the members of 4-4-1 currently up to?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: The other three guys still live in SoCal.\u00a0 Nobody’s perfect, I guess.\u00a0 John G. works in audio and video production.\u00a0 Steve’s a salesman and is still selling.\u00a0 John M. owns his own environmental engineering firm.\u00a0 I think all are involved in music in church in some fashion.\u00a0 I work in the technology\/software arena in Dallas and have a local cover band to keep me busy in my off time.<\/p>\n Glenn, could you tell us a bit more about your side band? Any plans to record?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: The Blind is a band I formed with a couple of new friends out here in Dallas.\u00a0 Jamie Woodson was in Room Full of Walters and Ryan Brandon is a great young drummer I met in the church band we were both in.\u00a0 Right now we\u2019re a cover band.\u00a0 We play mostly 80s rock \u2013 Journey, Billy Idol, Prince, that sort of stuff.\u00a0 But, Jamie and I are both songwriters and both have songs. Our plan was to build a following with other people\u2019s material and then start breaking our own in.\u00a0 How can that plan fail?\u00a0 Jamie and I both like power-pop type stuff so it will be interesting to see how we can work together.<\/p>\n Has anyone in 441 ever thought about solo albums? Also, to cover the obvious fan question – are there any older demos or unfinished songs that could be put together to make fan-club type release?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: McNamara would be the most likely choice for a solo record, since he can sing and write.\u00a0 I know the Elefantes were making noises about luring into a project after MID<\/em> was finished but obviously nothing came of that.<\/p>\n Now that I\u2019ve got better technical tools to work with, I\u2019ve thought of a solo project but I still conclude that I probably don\u2019t have enough to contribute on my own to make something really special.\u00a0 I\u2019d rather collaborate with people where we can be more than the sum of parts.\u00a0 Plus, who would buy \u201cGlenn Holland\u201d??\u00a0 Not sure there\u2019s a market for that.<\/p>\n On 441 demos and the like, there is material out there, but they\u2019re where they are for a reason.\u00a0 I\u2019m not sure we\u2019d want to release any of those.<\/p>\n What I\u2019d be more inclined to do are one-off new songs or perhaps alternate versions of existing songs.\u00a0 I\u2019ve got a song written that could be a nice 441 song.\u00a0 Re-doing \u201cPray For Rain\u201d from the Sacrifice<\/em> album would be nice.\u00a0 The Gialis didn\u2019t play on the original and I\u2019d love to have the \u2018real\u2019 441 give it a try.\u00a0 I have a slow, dreamy version of \u201cRain Fall Down\u201d that would be interesting to produce.<\/p>\n So, there are possibilities.\u00a0 Time, money and geography are the obstacles.<\/p>\n Are there any future plans for 4-4-1?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: No plans. It’d be great to play again, if the situation presented itself.<\/p>\n HM placed Mourning Into Dancing<\/em> at # 62 in their Top 100 Christian Rock Albums of All Time list. Any thoughts about this? I guess they are, in a sense, voting this as your best album as a band. Would you agree?\u00a0 What do you think of the musical comparisons they made between 441 and Duran Duran, Simple Minds, and Paul Young? <\/strong><\/p>\n JG: Well, we were listening to bands like Simple Minds and Duran Duran back then, and I suppose dreamy is better than nightmare-ish.\u00a0 For my money, MID<\/em> has always been my favorite, but it seems I\u2019m always running into people who actually like the first album best.\u00a0 But who are we to argue … we made it onto somebody’s top 100 list!<\/p>\n GH: Yes, I think Mourning Into Dancing<\/em> was our best record.\u00a0 The songwriting was consistent, the production was solid and it sounded great.\u00a0 It still sounds great.\u00a0 It dates itself a bit as it is very much an 80s \u2013 sounding record, but I\u2019m fine with that.\u00a0 441<\/em> has a lot of neat moments. MID<\/em> really could stand up against anything else out there.\u00a0 Of course, being mentioned on any list in 2010 is great.\u00a0 Just that people remember means a lot.<\/p>\n What are your thoughts on the current state of the music industry? How has digital music changed things?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: It’s truly the best of times and the worst of times.\u00a0 Music is so easy to produce now that the rare talented artist cannot be found amid the din of hundreds of thousands of mundane-to-dreadful pretenders.<\/p>\n Do you remember the Pixar movie The Incredibles<\/em>?\u00a0 During one scene, Syndrome is monologuing about selling all his cool inventions so everyone can be a superhero.\u00a0 And he says, “because when everyone is super, no one will be.”\u00a0 That’s a great line and I love the statement it makes on modern-day society.<\/p>\n Well, it’s applicable to music today.\u00a0 The crappiest band in the world can make a record and put it on iTunes.\u00a0 441 is on iTunes, Rhapsody, Napster, Amazon.\u00a0 We have distribution now that we’ve never had before.\u00a0 Do we deserve to be on iTunes?\u00a0 I’d like to say yes, but the same manner in which we got that distribution any other person can get their music on those stores \u2013 it had nothing to do with merit, development or recognition.<\/p>\n As a music listener you have tremendous choice.\u00a0 Nearly infinite choices.\u00a0 Practically, it’s impossible to find the diamonds in the rough.\u00a0 No matter how easy it is for us to bash record companies – and God knows they deserve it – they served a purpose:\u00a0 to find that raw material and finish them into an artist.\u00a0 Who does that now?\u00a0 You can argue that the machine did a pretty good job delivering to us artists we should be hearing.\u00a0 Elvis, Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, Van Halen, Michael Jackson, Prince, Paul Simon, U2.<\/p>\n I just don’t know if it’s possible to do that anymore.\u00a0 Who do we now depend on to weed through an endless number of “artists” so as consumers we have an idea of who to listen to?\u00a0 Even if there’s a site or a music critic that has some value, the machinery to take raw talent and hone them isn’t there.\u00a0 Developing an artist is nearly impossible for record companies.\u00a0 Their revenue streams are eroding and the business environment dictates an artist become profitable yesterday.<\/p>\n As for the quality of the top artists, I’m not sure that could be worse.\u00a0 Billboard’s Band of the Decade (for 2000-2009) was Nickelback.\u00a0 God help us all.\u00a0 Go look at the Hot 100 charts.\u00a0 If you don’t have a song “featuring” somebody, forget it.\u00a0 If you\u2019re not a Hip-Hop\/Hitmaker or Country fan, you\u2019re out of luck.<\/p>\n Any world where Creed is making a comeback has to make one wonder if better times are behind us.<\/p>\n Sure, there are some good acts out there, but the music world is so dominated by the modern urban sound that the little slice of pie us rock\/band-based fans want is gobbled up by John Mayer, Coldplay and Nickelback.<\/p>\n When you combine that with the still-rampant theft of music by millions of us there’s just not enough money in the business for good bands to be nurtured and flourish.\u00a0 Anyone who happens to be reading this who regularly gets music for free needs to understand they are drying up the well that serves their musical thirst and they need to stop.\u00a0 Buy the songs.\u00a0 If you like something, tell your friends to buy it.\u00a0 Anything else is stealing.<\/p>\n You speak about people stealing music, and I would agree people need to stop. I have also wondered if maybe the music industry didn’t help that happen more than they want to admit. They always push people to only care about the newest hottest music. I wonder if people got so hooked on having something new, that they latched on to stealing as a means to fulfill that desire that the music industry encouraged in the first place? I believe that you have to hold people accountable for their actions, but do you think that maybe the companies might have been also planting the seeds of their own destruction all along?<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: That\u2019s a good point.\u00a0 I think the industry\/labels surely made their own bed in the way they reacted to Napster, etc.\u00a0 They reacted like they could control it, which was a huge strategic mistake.\u00a0 Did they think the internet and digital music was a fad that would blow over, like Disco?\u00a0 This is not an easy problem to solve, to be sure.\u00a0 But they got it wrong from square one.<\/p>\n Bottom line, people steal music because they can get away with it.\u00a0 I\u2019ve done it and 95+ percent of the people reading this have also.\u00a0 Most of it is done because people can get something for free without anyone knowing and it\u2019s easy to rationalize.<\/p>\n However, a lot of us have downloaded or shared music because it\u2019s too hard to get the music we want using \u201ctheir\u201d channels.\u00a0 Once we had the world at our fingertips in the comfort of our own house with the internet, the idea of driving all over town only to be forced to buy a $16 CD full of songs we\u2019ve never heard and that were likely terrible \u2013 just for that one song –\u00a0 was untenable.\u00a0 Just search your favorite peer-to-peer client instead and you\u2019re listening to that cool song in 10 minutes.\u00a0 Fast and free.<\/p>\n If record companies had a vision of \u201cfast and cheap\u201d ten years ago they would likely be in a much different spot now.<\/p>\n The fact that they didn\u2019t even seem to recognize the entire world was changing was astounding.<\/p>\n Some people have begun to declare that the old Christian music scene was a mistake that “God never wanted.” Some seem to wish we could restore it to what it was. Looking back on it, what do you think about the scene in hindsight?<\/strong><\/p>\n JG: Personally I wouldn’t want to qualify the scene as whole like that, but back in our day\u00a0we weren’t hearing a\u00a0lot of “Christian” music suited to our taste.\u00a0 It’s been interesting to\u00a0have heard\u00a0comments this many years later from fans who say something like, “441 didn’t sound<\/em> like a ‘Christian band'” and we take that to mean there was a community out there that felt unsatisfied, as we were, with what was being offered at the time.\u00a0 So we were delighted to come across the alternative scene springing up in Orange County that “scratched that itch” so-to-speak for many of us.\u00a0 Music is an art, and people\u2019s tastes are going to vary whether in the church or out.\u00a0 Fortunately it’s a different day and there are a lot more choices for Christians today with respect to musical genres.\u00a0 I, for one, think that’s a good thing.<\/p>\n But again, I really believe it comes down to nothing more than personal taste.\u00a0 I was leading a worship team at my church, and on the occasions when my team played on a Sunday morning there was a sweet elderly lady, probably in her late 80\u2019s or early 90\u2019s, that would go out of her way to come thank me for the worship songs we sang (usually a mixture of rocking Lincoln Brewster and Chris Tomlin tunes with softer Hillsong inspirational stuff.)\u00a0 As I thanked her I would ask if she thought it got too loud, and she would enthusiastically respond, oh no!\u00a0 By contrast, there was another lady, who had to be decades younger in age, who routinely requested I play traditional hymns.\u00a0 Go figure.\u00a0 I really think this whole rock music and the church argument is tired.\u00a0 Move along people.<\/p>\n GH: How would those people know what God wants?\u00a0\u00a0 Burning bush?\u00a0 However, I know a lot of humans – in and out of the industry \u2013 who didn\u2019t want.<\/p>\n Here\u2019s a little story:\u00a0 Just after we had our first successes, two of my closest friends outside of the band told me they weren\u2019t sure God endorsed or approved what we were doing as a valid form of ministry.\u00a0 Frankly, I didn\u2019t personally push the conventional \u201cministry\u201d thing as a core facet of 441 \u2013 I had a different approach.\u00a0 But the beard-stroking hubris, the pride that comes from people in my story or the ones who say God never wanted something is incredible.\u00a0 Not only incredible.\u00a0 Distasteful and offensive.<\/p>\n Regardless of what God (or my friends) thought, stakeholders were trying to manipulate what was happening to fit their plans, preconceptions or prejudices.\u00a0 If you have an entire operation built to make Russ Taff or Carmen successful, why would you want to retool for Adam Again?<\/p>\n It even happened from within.\u00a0 We were asked to put more references to God in our songs.\u00a0 We thought there were just the right number of references to God.\u00a0 But sometimes you have to play the game.\u00a0 \u201cAdd a \u2018Jesus\u2019 and we get to do a record?\u00a0 Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!\u201d<\/p>\n It\u2019s what we humans do \u2013 mess things up to suit our own needs.<\/p>\n As for thoughts on the \u2018scene\u2019, John hit it on the head above.\u00a0 Shortly after I became a Christian (at 17) my also-newly-minted-Christian friends (ironically, the same ones I mentioned above) took me to one of those Disneyland or Knott\u2019s Christian music nights.\u00a0 It was terrible.\u00a0 At the time I was listening to KROQ in LA \u2013 Talking Heads, early U2, Violent Femmes, Gang of Four, the Clash.\u00a0 I had already been a fan of the Police and Joe Jackson for three years or so.\u00a0 I heard nothing even close to that at Celebration Praise \u201881 or whatever it was called.<\/p>\n That experience motivated me to learn music and try to do it better \u2013 sort of a \u2018put up or shut up\u2019 \u2013 and 441 was born within three years of that moment and not long after we were playing Knott\u2019s Berry Farm.<\/p>\n Of course, we weren\u2019t the only or the first.\u00a0 Right when I was getting good enough at bass to start thinking about playing in a band I went to Calvary Chapel and saw Undercover and The Lifters and was blown away.\u00a0 John and I also ran sound one night for a band named Jonny Kat at a local church.\u00a0 The music and energy these bands brought was appealing and infectious.\u00a0 It totally energized us \u2013 as it did thousands and thousands of others.<\/p>\n Those were great times and nothing can be restored to its original state.\u00a0 They now say dinosaurs are the ancestors of birds.\u00a0 Now, Switchfoot, Relient K and Hillsong are successors of Undercover, Altar Boys, Lifesavors and The Choir.\u00a0 And The Edge is the Godfather of every worship band guitarist on the planet.<\/p>\n However \u2013 and this is not any commentary on the groups mentioned above \u2013 the vast majority Christian music STILL \u201csounds Christian\u201d.\u00a0 You know, that certain way the guy sings\u2026 is just like the other guy, and the other guy, and the other guy\u2026 and there\u2019s something about it that just seems fake or contrived to me.\u00a0 I heard it as a 17 year old and I still hear it.\u00a0 I\u2019m completely uninterested.\u00a0 Aside from some of our brethren back in the day, I\u2019ve not one Christian album in my collection.\u00a0 Not that I\u2019m saying it isn\u2019t good for other people \u2013 a lot of people enjoy that music.\u00a0 It\u2019s just not for me.\u00a0 And I know it\u2019s not for a great, great many other people.<\/p>\n Go listen to \u201cI Want You\u201d on Abbey Road when John overloads the mic preamp with his scream.\u00a0 Raw, honest, authentic.\u00a0 Listen to \u201cLove\u2019s Irony\u201d on the 441<\/em> rerelease.\u00a0 There\u2019s a guy who\u2019s still hurting from a lost love.\u00a0 It\u2019s intense.\u00a0 Whether it\u2019s a scream or a whisper, people want to relate, to feel, to think.\u00a0 That\u2019s what the bands in that scene were trying to do.\u00a0 That approach ultimately didn\u2019t fit into the plans of the people who had the most power.<\/p>\n As for our part, it was fun and exciting.\u00a0 And it did touch people.\u00a0 We still have people write to us to let us know that.\u00a0 That is just amazing and I feel honored to have been a part of something that positively influenced someone else.<\/p>\n So, is it safe to say that all of the members of 4-4-1 still consider themselves Christians? We have covered many different people from older Christian bands that are all over the place with their beliefs now, so it is always interesting to see where people have been on their journeys, no matter where they are now. How would you describe your journey from when you were in the band until now?<\/strong><\/p>\n JG: Of course the 80’s were a lifetime ago for all of us, but yeah I think it’s safe to say our faith has remained intact.\u00a0 As Glenn mentioned, we’re all involved one way or another in our respective churches.\u00a0But like Hebrews 12:1 says it takes endurance to run the marathon that is the Christian faith.<\/p>\n GH:\u00a0 It\u2019s true that some of the figures from back then are in radically different places now.\u00a0 Some stories make me a little sad.\u00a0 Many of us saw an underbelly of the church by virtue of our access that affected our own beliefs and practices.<\/p>\n Personally, I\u2019ve experienced things that make it difficult for me to trust someone who talks a certain talk.<\/p>\n I\u2019ve always been the guy on the outside and I\u2019ve accepted \u2013 even embraced \u2013 that destiny.\u00a0 My role now is to help my daughters grow into grounded, loving, caring individuals.\u00a0 I like to talk about God with them and encourage their curiosity.\u00a0 But, I will also protect them from many of the \u201cChristian\u201d things that affected me.<\/p>\n The best thing from this arc of 441 has been my relationship with the other guys.\u00a0 John, John and Steve have made a huge impact on my life.\u00a0 It hasn\u2019t been all sunshine and lollipops, and that\u2019s why I value them so much.<\/p>\n If there had been more time at the Broken Reunion, what other songs would you have liked to have in there?<\/strong><\/p>\n JG: There are several songs off the Sacrifice<\/em> album that we like to play, \u201cPray For Rain,\u201d \u201cJudas Kisses,\u201d and others.\u00a0 For some reason we usually can’t make it through a rehearsal without a spontaneous jam of \u201cLove’s Irony\u201d erupting.\u00a0 We’ve also been known to throw in a cover like \u201cWhat\u2019s So Funny about Peace Love and Understanding,\u201d as we did the following year at Spirit West Coast.<\/p>\n GH:\u00a0 You mean what songs are we going to do at the next big concert?\u00a0 John made some excellent suggestions, but what I want to do is get all those bands back together and we\u2019ll do each other\u2019s songs.\u00a0 THAT would be fun.<\/p>\n Glenn also had this to share about the photograph at the beginning of this story:<\/strong><\/p>\n GH: photo of our Mourning Into Dancing<\/em> photo session which produced the black and white album cover. \u00a0This was the night of the L.A. Street Scene festival. \u00a0We, as well as Undercover, played. \u00a0It was a\u00a0raucous\u00a0scene and the riot police were called in. \u00a0I don’t think they have that festival any more. \u00a0The shoot location was in a bad part of town and Steve’s car was broken into while we were in front of the camera. \u00a0Speaking of controversies, the shirt Steve wore for this shoot (shown in all it’s red-and-white rugby glory here in the attached photo) didn’t go over too well with the label head, Harry Barnes. \u00a0Harry was getting “cool” cues from Gene Eugene and the Gene Crowd thought our look – namely Steve’s shirt – was, well, lame. \u00a0It was 441’s version of “Smell the Glove” except we probably would have been better off with a bona fide controversial cover like a woman on all fours with a dog collar around her neck. \u00a0Maybe the Evangelical Christian version would be a woman reading the Book of Mormon with Rosary beads around her neck?<\/p>\n I digress. \u00a0Many long discussions ensued and ideas – such as re-shooting the cover, doctoring the existing photo and filling in Steve’s shirt so it was monotone, putting a picture of U2 on our cover – were all bounced around (okay, I made up the U2 thing). \u00a0Ultimately, it would have been expensive and forced a delay in releasing the album. \u00a0So, the shirt survived to offend hipsters worldwide.<\/p>\n ——————————————————————————<\/p>\n Be sure to check out the 441 website:<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/downthelinezine.com\/archives\/files\/2022\/01\/441b.jpg\")
<\/p>\n
![\"\"](\"https:\/\/downthelinezine.com\/archives\/files\/2022\/01\/441c.jpg\")
<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/downthelinezine.com\/archives\/files\/2022\/01\/441d.jpg\")
<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/downthelinezine.com\/archives\/files\/2022\/01\/441e.jpg\")
<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/downthelinezine.com\/archives\/files\/2022\/01\/441f.jpg\")
<\/p>\n