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Interview by Steve Ruff<\/em><\/p>\n Where do you stand in your beliefs toward Christianity, Jesus, etc.<\/strong><\/p>\n I would say that I\u2019m either agnostic or atheist\u2026 Agnostic means you\u2019re just not sure, but I border atheism. I don\u2019t really believe in anything that has sat down and talked to anybody, put it that way.<\/p>\n Did you come to that because of the way you were treated in regards to your coming out?<\/strong><\/p>\n No, no I didn\u2019t, it was a natural progression. I\u2019ve read in articles and heard through the grapevine that people have said I walked away from God because I wasn\u2019t successful or because I was gay, but to me that\u2019s sort of insulting because why would I walk away from God no matter what? Ya know, where are you gonna go if you believe in God? If you believe in the Christian God you can\u2019t get away from him and you\u2019re gonna go to hell if you don\u2019t follow Jesus and do the right thing, so ya know, where am I gonna go? I would be a big idiot to just give up and die and go to hell. I think it\u2019s pretty ridiculous to think that, and I\u2019m not saying you think that but there are people who seem to find joy in bringing that subject up and I always think, \u201cWow\u201d, but I\u2019m just really not that shallow.<\/p>\n Someone asked me a real long, long time ago, \u201cDid you leave God because you weren\u2019t successful?\u201d The bottom line is they must not understand the depth of their faith, or the depth of my faith and what I believe. I believe 100% whole-heartedly, I\u2019ve got all kinds of different paranormal experiences and God encounters if you want to call them that. As I grew and started looking at what was going on, and as I started studying religions and paranormal activity and just ancient religions and on down the line, I just realized it\u2019s all in your mind and it\u2019s all subject to argument and it\u2019s all subject to being not true. I just got to a point that took me at least about 15 years, where I just don\u2019t believe in it, but it wasn\u2019t something that I just got up one day and said, \u201cI\u2019m done, I\u2019m walking away, bye God.\u201d It was the more that I learned, Christianity just didn\u2019t make sense, and it got the point where the reasonable doubt outweighed anything that had any substance to it, and to the point that the reasonable doubt outweighed everything. Finally I just thought, \u201cI can\u2019t do this, I can\u2019t believe something that\u2018s not real to me.\u201d People think I walked away and just said, \u201cOh God, I don\u2019t want you\u201d, it ain\u2019t that, I just don\u2019t believe, it\u2019s just not there.<\/p>\n The thing about Christians and being gay and stuff, I mean the Bible says that it\u2019s a sin. That is in the Old Testament and especially in the New Testament. They don\u2019t talk about it but like three times in the whole Bible, ya know, they talk about murder, they talk about adultery, they talk about all kinds of stuff over and over in the bible, and they very seldom talk about homosexuality or make a big deal about it. The thing is, if it\u2019s wrong in the Bible, it\u2019s a sin, and the Bible says it\u2019s an abomination, one of the things God hates the most, in fact almost THE most. An abomination is what God completely hates and cannot forgive you for, and then they throw that on gay people. What are people going to do with that? Basically they either kill themselves or live a miserable life or they do things they don\u2019t want to do like get married and act straight. Then later on they leave their wives for someone else and ruin their kid\u2019s lives.<\/p>\n I think the church ruins gay people\u2019s lives because they just won\u2019t let them be who they are, and they don\u2019t understand who they are either. They put us in the category of child molesters and murderers, and that\u2019s bullsh*t. You know most child molesters are straight, and murderers, what do you do with that? They kill people ya know? I mean, I\u2019m gay, so you say I\u2019m just like a person who kills somebody? The other thing is the church believes it\u2019s a choice, like \u201cOh, I choose to do this vile terrible thing\u201d, and I\u2019m going \u201cIt ain\u2019t no choice at all\u201d. If I had the choice I don\u2019t think anybody gay\u2026 you could ask anybody who\u2019s gay, and I could be wrong, but you ask any gay person if they had a choice to be straight or gay would they choose to be gay, and they would all say no. Why would you choose to be hated by the world, be the scourge of the world, be hated by God, be dammed in the church, be ostracized by your family and your parents? To be subjected to being killed, murdered, beat up and be a victim of hate crimes, I could keep on going down the line ya know. I mean movie stars lose their careers and rock stars lose their status over being gay, so I mean the bottom line is, why would somebody choose that? I don\u2019t think anybody would.<\/p>\n Then these people say that it\u2019s just a mental thing. It\u2019s just like being left handed or right handed, you have blue eyes or green eyes, it\u2019s like feeling you\u2019re a woman in a man\u2019s body or vice versa. They think it\u2019s a mental thing or it just might be a mental disorder. Ya know, for all we know it could be like autism or something, I don\u2019t know. Then somebody says, \u201cWell just because it\u2019s a mental thing still doesn\u2019t mean its right.\u201d I mean, how do you deal with that? If you\u2019re a paraplegic does that mean you\u2019re gonna hate yourself or that the church is gonna kick you out because your not fit for God? That is what they did in the old days, ya know? We know that, that\u2019s why Jesus tried to help the poor so much, because those people couldn\u2019t go into the temple, they were not deemed good enough to go into the temple in the presence of God just to be saved and to be healed and accepted. As far as I\u2019m concerned, in my life, religion is just complete 100% bullsh*t and I don\u2019t want no part of it.<\/p>\n I hear where you\u2019re coming from… that was a heavy load there, but I\u2019m glad you cleared up the speculation about why you left the faith and…<\/strong><\/p>\n And you know what else pisses me off more than anything? When a Christian wants to talk to me about what I believe or what I\u2019ve been through, and I never condemn them, I never say they\u2019re wrong or whatever… but, if you\u2019re a Christian and you live your life the best you can and you are at peace with yourself, I\u2019ve got no problems with you. When they turn around and say, \u201cwell you\u2019re still gonna have to stand before God, you still will have to do that\u201d and I\u2019m saying \u201cI don\u2019t believe in God\u201d and they say, \u201cyou\u2019re still gonna have to believe.\u201d That\u2019s when I just get angry and I say \u201cokay, you win, I lose if that\u2019s what you want.\u201d<\/p>\n I was watching an atheist one time on TV, he\u2019s the guy that has that show Inside the Actors Studio (James Lipton) where he interviews movie stars. He\u2019s an atheist I guess, and this one time somebody sat down and interviewed him. The last question they asked was \u201cSince you\u2019re an atheist, when you die and have to stand before God what do you think he\u2019ll say to you?\u201d He looked up without blinking his eye and he said, \u201cThis is what God will say, \u201cI was right, you were wrong, now come on in.\u201d You know? Isn\u2019t that God? Listen Steve, I figure it this way\u2026 if the Christian God is real, which I don\u2019t believe, but if He is real then He understands why I feel the way I do, why I am who I am and why I have come to this conclusion and I don\u2019t believe He could find fault in it because it\u2019s what He would have wanted.<\/p>\n I\u2019m glad we cleared that up because I was under the same impression. I thought you had come out of the closet and because of the way you had been treated you walked away from the faith.<\/strong><\/p>\n No, but I knew exactly what people would say. I was a Christian once, I know exactly what they do. When I came out I knew what they were going to do, they even banned our records in Christian bookstores. On Ear Candy I sang a song called \u201cLooking for Love\u201d which has the line \u201cI guess I lost my faith\u201d and I was singing songs about not believing anymore blah, blah, blah and they never said a word, but as soon as I came out our records were banned, isn\u2019t that something?<\/p>\n It\u2019s a cutthroat industry dUg, it doesn\u2019t really appear to be any different then anything else\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n That\u2019s why I didn\u2019t want to be a Christian band. You see when I played with Phil Keaggy back in the day, Jerry and I both did, we went to a big festival where these big selling Christian acts played like The Imperials and Andre Crouch, big selling bands back then and Phil Keaggy was really huge at the time too. So we did this festival and I remember going backstage really excited about meeting my hero\u2019s and these great Christian people who were playing this great Christian music and I really wanted to fellowship with them ya know, I was under the impression that all Christians were good. I got backstage and all of a sudden I saw egos, I saw attitudes and I saw a**holes. At that point I realized that this was no different than anything else, and if this was the way it was going to be then I would rather just be in a regular band, go out there and play for regular people and if they turn against me that\u2019s okay because that\u2019s expected.<\/p>\n I just hadn\u2019t believed that these Christians would really be this way\u2026 I was very disillusioned and that was the day I decided that I was not going to do anything in the Christian realm. That\u2019s why we didn\u2019t do Cornerstone even though they kept asking us. I would have loved to play it but I knew as soon as we played it we would have been branded. We would have been branded AND we would have been questioned, and back then I was still in my closet too and I felt like a big phony. If I\u2019m gonna talk about truth, sing about truth and about people being honest and accepting each other, well I better step up to the plate too and not be a hypocrite like the rest of them.<\/p>\n Was it CCM Magazine or HM Magazine where you did the coming out story and was there an immediate backlash?<\/strong><\/p>\n Ummmmm, it was CCM and the only backlash we got was that I had heard our records were taken out of Christian bookstores. Other than that I never heard another word. I remember the record company saying, \u201cdUg, next time you decide to do something like this please let us know.\u201d (laughter)<\/p>\n Another question I had was – Is there a way to separate Christ from \u201cthe Church\u201d in matters like this, but I guess that would fall under the category of if you don\u2019t believe in Christ then\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n Well you can separate Christ from \u201cthe Church\u201d because I\u2019ve got a Bible that\u2019s in Aramaic, it\u2019s translated from what Jesus said in the Aramaic and they break it down in the English. Basically it doesn\u2019t have anything to do with the way that Christians believe, it just really doesn\u2019t. Jesus was more like the attitude of being one with God, being one with the earth, one with yourself, ya know just being at peace and loving each other, understanding each other and caring for one another. That was his biggest thrust and they turned him into this person that forgives sins and you have to accept Him in order to get to Heaven. That\u2019s just totally unrealistic to me. Besides, the whole dying for your sins thing\u2026 you know in the Old Testament, what did they do, they sacrificed lambs and the blood of an animal was supposed to atone for your sins? That\u2019s so barbaric. Then they changed it and switched it over to Jesus and that He died for our sins and His blood covers us now, and it\u2019s still so barbaric. I cannot believe in a God that would kill something for you and its blood forgives you for your sins, it\u2019s just crazy. Even the Muslims say that Christians drink blood which is bullsh*t you know?<\/p>\n I just think, wow, this crazy, crazy religion that we have grown up with for so many centuries and we just can\u2019t see it. When I got out of it, got away from it and looked back at it, I thought \u201cOh my God, what a crazy f*cked up religion that is, it\u2019s just as crazy as the Muslims, if not crazier. The only difference is that Christians don\u2019t do jihad, they don\u2019t kill you, but they did in the past. They went into countries and killed people if they didn\u2019t believe in God. That\u2019s our religion, and the Catholic Church started the whole thing and its complete bullsh*t. Look at the Pope, he\u2019s the infallible word of God? Gimmee a break! The Vatican has more money than any country in the world probably, and they could feed the poor but what do they do with it? They\u2019re keeping their money and they pay for lawsuits for people who are molesting little boys. Still people go to these churches and they want to believe in them\u2026 it just baffles me when religious leaders f*ck up really bad and people just go back and follow them anyway. I wonder what is going on. It\u2019s such a blind religion that it blows my mind and I cannot accept it. That leads me back to people asking why I left. I didn\u2019t leave, it just didn\u2019t make sense to me anymore because it\u2019s not real, it\u2019s not true in my opinion.<\/p>\n As far as the interview, is there anything else that you would want to add to this?<\/strong><\/p>\n (laughter) Well I think I pretty much said a mouthful\u2026 (more laughter)<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"http:\/\/downthelinezine.com\/archives\/files\/2010\/05\/dug2.jpg\" "\\"dug2\\"")
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