(Editor’s Note: DTL was made aware of Barnes’ criminal record after the publication of this article. He was apparently charged with conning people and churches out of significant sums of money. He also paid his time for those crimes before this article came out. This article looks at his history in the CCM world. After looking into the charges and arrest record to see what this scam was, we just want to remind people that something that sounds too good to be true usually is… and that “a fool and their money are soon parted.” Don’t fall for peoples’ obvious scams.)
Harry L. Barnes is the former owner of Blue Collar Records, formerly Royal Commandment Records. I was particularly interested in Blue Collar records for their producing one of my favorite bands back in the day, 441. In talking to Harry, he gives some interesting insights into the production aspects of music from the era. I recommend reading the earlier Gordon Driver interview, as the two synthesize in interesting ways to tell a fuller story of this period of time in the Christian music industry.
Kevin Noel Olson: Can you give us a bit of the history of Royal Commandment Records and who was on that label before it changed to Blue Collar?
Harry L. Barnes: Back in ’84, I attended concerts at Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa. I’d grown up and lived in Montebello at the time. It’s a little community on the border of East Los Angeles. Cheech and Chong are from there. “Born in East L.A.” is about that area.
We were driving out to Calvary Chapel each Saturday night in Costa Mesa where they were doing concerts, these were concerts were huge. They would do concerts and events every Saturday night.
I think the main chapel held somewhere around 2,000 people and they had an overflow area. I fell in love with the atmosphere and enjoying music I’d never heard as a Christian before growing up where I was at. There wasn’t a lot of that going on out there.
We started taking a lot of friends to the concerts. I got to thinking about my old high school, Montebello High. ‘what if we could do a concert here?’
I thought, ‘I wonder what would happen if we brought a band out this way? To my hometown’ I just saw the impact and how much people responded to the message and the music. And how it was relatable to a lot of young folks.
There was a gentleman named Coach David Meshegan(?) Don’t ask me how to spell his last name. He was a super-nice guy and just a wonderful person. I talked to him about I thought we could do.
Surprisingly, the high school at that time they were open to it. They didn’t have any objection to it even though it was a Christian band that was going to be playing. They let us do a little assembly on campus at lunchtime the day of the concert. So, we were really promoting the concert, we sold tickets. Coach Meshgan ran an group on campus called The Fellowship of Christian athletes. Through that organization we were given a connection to the school. We did this concert which Calvary Chapel helped support financially, and we got Darryl Mansfield to come out and play. He did a great show. He had a song about evolution where he put a monkey-mask on and whatnot. He had a guitar player who was great. The students loved it! Montebello High School at that time was about 2,000 kids. The concert later that night was well attended filling the school auditorium with about 800 that evening, and it was absolutely phenomenal. At the end of the concert, Randy Sigler who was doing the message at the concerts in Calvary Chapel on Saturday nights, he gave a message. When he gave an altar call, 600 kids went forward.
After we did that concert I was talking to Randy about what I wanted to do. You know maybe try a small label that would allow me to do more concerts. He’d got a lot of demo tapes and he and I went through a whole bunch of tapes that he had, and there was a band called 441. I liked the sound of it. I liked what they were doing musically. They were guys that were relatively local to where I was. We were all based in the San Gabriel valley area, so we were close by. I met with the guys, and decided to do a little record with them. It was interesting. We didn’t have a lot of expectations. We didn’t have anything. We didn’t know what would happen.
So, we do the record and took it to a radio station. It was the biggest radio station, as far as contemporary Christian music goes, in the country, called KYMS. They were based out of Orange County, and there were so many large mega-churches in the county at the time. Their audience was quite large. They had a Saturday night radio countdown, and the release of our record, 441, came out and we listened wondering, ‘are we going to make it?’ into the, I think it was a top twenty or top 40 list. I think it was top 40 for Christian music albums sold in southern California. We were waiting and hoping, you know, that we would fall in there somewhere. We had a pretty successful debut, so we thought with the initial record release we could maybe make the top 40. And it counts down and we do not hear us, so it comes to the last spot, we thought we missed the top 40 and the host comes on, ‘Hey, this band with new a record here from southern California. 441 – its #1!’
It’s kind of makes me teary eyed thinking about it right now because it was such a high! We never expected that. It blew us all away; the guys in the band, myself. We hear that being played on the radio. Let me tell you, it was the first time it had ever happened in the history of their countdown that a debut album debuted at #1. And the funny thing is that we knocked out U2 with Unforgettable Fire, I believe, was the one that we knocked off.
We held that spot for a while. The amazing thing was that record stayed in their top 40 countdown for an entire year. We were all just completely blown was very exciting.
After that, we started up some national distribution deals with Lexicon music, owned by a gentleman named Ralph Carmichael. He was a super-nice man and a very talented composer and orchestra leader. He was a phenomenal musician and very successful in what he did in the music world in general, I know he was a Grammy winner and maybe even an Oscar.
That lead us to do a follow-up record with [441] called Mourning Into Dancing, which we stepped up the production on. We were able to go to a nicer studio called Pachyderm Studios which were owned by the Elephante brothers, Dino and John. At that time, John had become the lead singer of Kansas, taking Kerry Livgren’s place. So, we recorded at their studio. After that, I met Gene Eugene. He was the leader of a band called Adam Again, and we went to Derri Daughtery of the Choir studio and recorded In A New World of Time. Which was a very “new” or unique sound for Christian music. That was our second record. Gene then introduced me to Joe Taylor of Undercover.
Undercover at that time was going through a lot of personal changes. I think personally they were battling with different issues in their lives. After some discussions with Joe and the band we decided to work together. We went back to Pachyderm and we recorded Branded. Branded was a really interesting record to do with Joe and Undercover. First for me being a start-up label to work with Undercover who was at that time a pretty big band in Christian music. There was no one doing what they were doing. They always drew huge crowds and had a huge following. They had some really big, successful records. But there was something going on and they decided to make a change with their label, and we put Branded together.
Branded, I think, was a controversial record because the record wasn’t as…I don’t know if this is the right term to use, but it wasn’t as much a ‘rah-rah’ record in Christian music. It had a lot of dark elements and emotions to it, and it talked about a lot of struggles. It just wasn’t what people were used to hearing from Undercover. I think at the time with Christian artists in general. I think it was a more emotionally honest record that dealt with struggle and vulnerability that we all go through.
I was pretty impressed with the Branded album. I’ve always appreciated records that make you think. 441, with “Fish On Her Car,” made me think a bit farther than things you might typically hear at the time.
Exactly. Now, it’s interesting that you mention that. Because 441 they were always looked at as, for lack of a better word, a ‘goody two-shoes’ band. They all came from good homes in a very affluent neighborhood in San Gabriel valley. Most of the guys had grown up and lived near Arcadia, which is again just a well-to-do area.
Some of the guys from the other groups had a rough-edge to them. Undercover certainly had a rough edge. Bands like the Altar Boys had a rough edge. Gene was just a character himself. He was a very unique individual. He definitely came from a different part of town with different sort of environment.
But 441 actually, when you listen to a lot of their lyrics, if you look beneath the surface you’ll find out there’s a little bit more to them than just “Break Out, Break Free” which was a great little song they did. It had a great hook, a great drum intro – it was just a little rockabilly tune that they did that really launched everything. But “Fish On Her Car” was really, without any malicious intention, it was really mocking what was going on in the Orange County Christian mentality. You know, where everyone had a fish on their car and were doing all the things that made you look like a Christian. It wasn’t like you lived like one or had genuine changes in your life.
So yes, they were not quite as simplistic as people may think. But Branded was on a whole different level in terms of emotional struggle and depth. It was definitely a different type of record.
I think of 441 as having some real substance beneath the surface. “Break Out” is, to me, a bit like Alice Cooper’s “18.” They are trying to move out into a larger world than they knew before.
The other song on the 441 record that they wanted to redo on the follow-up record was “In His Presence.” It was actually a great song and a great tune that they did. So I think those guys were definitely solid. There were a number of songs that were really well done and still hold up to this day.
Moving into Mourning Into Dancing, I feel is a lot more in-depth and considered than even their debut album.
Yes. As you grow as a person and start to see things differently. As you’re travelling to different churches across the country, you’re exposed to different things. Some of it was good and some of it not so good. It can be an eye-opening experience, if you would. There was a lot going on in Christian music at that time, and you came across people who weren’t as sincere as you would think or hope they would be. I think Mourning Into Dancing was a reflection of that.
“Mourning Into Dancing,” I love the song. It’s a great tune. It’s a great message for any Christian, you know. But then again, think about something too. You look at the song, “Mourning Into Dancing,” it’s not talking about an easier, happier life. I think that was the message that 441 picked up on. People were getting tired of, not their faith, but that it’s okay to acknowledge their struggles sometimes. You don’t always have to put on that smiling face as a Christian and be this person whose life is always perfect. That’s not reality. That’s why it’s a great song, because it deals with that. It doesn’t have the dark overtone that maybe the Branded album did, but that song could have been done on Branded as an example. With of course Undercover’s spin and take on it. It’s kind of along the same line.
In doing this, you start getting letters from kids across the country, and people actually outside of the country from people in Europe and other areas of the world. You have to wonder how are people hearing this? How are people finding this music? How are they getting a hold of it? We had no idea. Some of the letters are so inspiring, especially when you struggle. We were having problems with our distributor. I think he may have been also distributing for Gordon Driver [owner – Exile Records]. He did The Choir on Lexicon. I think he was struggling with the same scenario as far as distribution and getting paid for the albums we were selling.
Not to change the subject, but a very interesting thing was that Steve Hindalong of The Choir, he and I basically grew up together. We only lived a few blocks apart and we went to the same high school. I worked in an audio/video store where Steve would come on a regular basis and we’d play tapes for each other and share music after work. Both he and I were huge fans of The Scarecrow album by John Mellencamp – really for the production value of the record. Steve, as a drummer, loved the drums sound. So did I. The sound they got was very simplistic, but it’s so solid. It’s just interesting that the little area of Montebello there, that he and I grew up together. Of course, he’s gone on to do so many great things and found success.
That’s very cool! So, what was the evolution for the latter era of Blue Collar?
Blue Collar had a lot of success in moving product. After 441, we went ahead and did an album with Gene of Adam Again. Gene was accused of sounding like The Talking Heads, which was a huge influence on him. So, if it sounds a little bit like it, there’s a reason. Gene may have taken it step to far with getting the Minister and Artist Howard Finster who was from the south – he painted with tractor paint – and did this amazing album cover for the Talking Heads (I think it won a Grammy). Anyway if it was too much I did not care. I loved it, it was such a great cover. Gene was on the road as a manager I think for Undercover and they were down south he winds up driving out to this farm and ends up meeting this guy the Minster Howard Finster, Howard took a liking to Gene and ends up doing the album cover for In A New World Of Time.
He did it on plywood. I remember having it in my office, this big 2×2 piece of plywood just this great piece of Art. I’m sure he had a large cult following, because he’s so unique in what he was doing. I really loved the sound quality of that record. My biggest regret was that I didn’t take a bit more active role in the studio. I contributed and made suggestions, and offered direction and input. There are things that I listened to at the time, and listening to it today they still bother me. I think it would’ve been easy to make it better. I was trying to balance things out and not interject as much, though it was probably my right to do so.
Can you offer us a list of the bands you worked with during the Blue Collar/Royal Commandment era?
We put out four albums. 441, their debut album, followed by Mourning Into Dancing, then A New World Of Time with Adam Again, and then Undercover – Branded. We also recorded a live album of Undercover that I was a part of, but we actually did a transfer of ownership to another gentleman – I don’t know what happened to him – but he was out of New Jersey. He had been calling me, wanting to get involved. So he assisted them with finishing up. That was recorded live at Magic Mountain at Six Flags Park in southern California. It was a live album we did, but ultimately didn’t release as a Blue Collar album.
441 did a third album sometime later.
They did a third album; I think it was through Brainstorm, self-produced, I’m not sure. I wasn’t involved at the time, but it was the two primary writers actually I think they wrote all of 441 music Glen Holland and John McNamara. They did something on their own. The Giali brothers, Steve and John, I don’t think were involved with the record. They are all such a great group of guys.
I wanted to go back to the Undercover record, because there’s three things I think are important about the record, that are really meaningful to me to this day.
The first was that Joe had shared with me. At the time there was Sparrow records, that was a huge label in Christian music. They had some really talented artists. A guy like John Talbot, Steve Taylor – there was a lot of folks. The head of the label, the president of the label actually called Joe, and let him know he had made everybody on his staff listen to Branded because he thought it was such a powerful record. That was meaningful to me to think we could do something like that. It was nice to hear, you know?
But more importantly than that, as I mentioned before we got letters from all over the world. We got a letter from a girl who was in Texas, and it was from her hospital room where she was undergoing treatment. She said the Branded album helped prevent her from committing suicide. Hearing that just blows you away it just reminds you it’s okay to acknowledge your struggles and doubts it’s okay to be honest. And even though we were struggling with the business side of things what we were really after was still happening.
So, when we’re talking about money issues and royalties not being paid, I mean I’m talking six-figures that I was out, and then of course I can’t help the artist get paid because I’m not getting paid. It was kind of a trickle-down effect. But when you get letter like that from someone who said it help them from suicide, it humbles but inspires you for sure, I never forgot that one because it was so impactful, it reminded me in the end all the struggles are definitely worth it. Because that was the ultimate goal to begin with.
At the end of the day, all you can do is try to be accountable for what you can control and what you can do. If it’s the right thing and a genuine direction. Looking back on it, even this day, you forget about not getting paid. You forget about the struggles. You remember them, but ultimately you remember the letter from the girl in the hospital room. From people around the world who somehow found this music and it mattered to them it had an impact it helped make a difference in their life, it was a privilege to be a part of it. It’s just things like that. That’s really what you want to focus on, because that was the ultimate goal anyway. That’s the memory, the part always rises to the top. And the times shared with all of the guys in the studios and on the road.
A few years later Joe was interviewed for a publication that named Branded as one the top 50 or most important Christian records of all time, it was a pretty respectable publication. He mentioned me in the interview which was very kind and generous of him, it meant a lot to me. That was something to look back and be happy and proud to be a part of. As a Christian, you want to be careful to not be caught up with yourself. You are thankful that you are able to be a part of something. I think thankful is the proper word. You are thankful and appreciative to be part of this.
Returning to Gene Eugene who had a large impact, it’s important to touch on his story a bit. He was a child actor and had some pretty big success. Gene was in an episode of Bewitched, which really was probably one of the most famous episodes of that iconic series in the 60s. Gene played Darrin in one episode when Andora turned him into a little boy. The little boy was played by Gene.
The thing that Gene loved more than music was baseball and horse-racing. He was a horse-racing junkie. If he could go to Las Vegas and spend an entire week betting on horses, that’s what he would do.
But he had a battle with money, and Gene had a lot of demons. Unfortunately, some of those demons were what may have lead to his early death. One day Gene comes to me and says, ‘Hey Harry, I really need some money – is there anything you can do?’ And I said, ‘I really can’t. I’m not going to have any money for you until Friday.’ This was like on a Tuesday. So I said, ‘On Friday I can see about helping you out, but I can’t do anything for you today.’ He said, ‘Man, I’m desperate! Can’t you help me?’ and then he goes, ‘Okay, so you can help me Friday.’ I said, ‘Sure, I’ll help you on Friday.’ He said, ‘Okay.” How about if you give me a check now, and I won’t cash it ‘til Friday. Will that work?’ And I said to Gene, ‘You have to PROMISE that you will not cash this check until Friday.’ He said, ‘Harry, you don’t have to worry about it. Friday is the day I’ll cash it.’ I said, ‘Okay Gene.’
So I cut him a check. He takes off. Shortly thereafter, I head to the bank. I get to the bank and who is in the line in front of me but Gene cashing the check? *chuckles*
All the musicians loved Gene, he was a character and a great talent. The difference between Gene and all the other guys from that era is that his musical influences were far different. He covered one of Marvin Gaye’s big songs. His influences were far different than most of the Christian bands at that time. He was a very sharp guy, very, very bright, who was just like a lot of people who are that way. They have a lot of struggles. I think that’s pretty much where Gene was at. It was a great experience working with Gene, and I think that album if you listen to it, there was really nothing like it in Christian music at that time. There was nothing sounding like what they were doing. It was very unique and very different. Gene definitely had a huge influence on Christian music. You can start hearing the roots of it in that first record.
I was happy and grateful to be a part of working with bands like 441 and producing their first album in the studio along with Gene and Adam Again. Of course, having the opportunity to work with Undercover really was a privilege. At that time, the record was unique. I’m thankful for what it turned out to be and it was a great experience overall. Like I said earlier, you focus on the long-term things where you helped people in some way, and that was the goal all along.
So, going back to where it all started from, going to concerts, like the high school concert in Montebello, you never would have thought you’d be able to help people like that. That was always the goal. That is what it was all about. So, in the end, there was real success to it. I think whether it be Christian music or music in general, people in the entertainment field in general, the commercial success seems to be the driving force for many. The raw passion for the art and the work sometimes is not there.
I’m a huge fan of Willie Nelsen, Kris Kristofferson, Johnny Cash Gordon Lightfoot – writers who had a huge passion for what they’re doing. I’m actually getting ready to go back into the studio again to help my cousin. He’s a country artist out of Nashville. We’re going to put together some things and I’m going to help produce it, try to help put it together and try to get him a deal through it. So, I’m throwing my hat in the ring one more time to help my cousin out. I think he’s got a real shot, and hopefully we can make it work.
Thanks, Harry. I think it’s been a great and interesting interview. What are your future plans?
I just want to strive to live a life of genuineness with empathy and love for others and to take the time to laugh each day.
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